Meditation Unlocked: A Practical Guide for Busy Minds with Tania Ho

0:00:00 - Andrea Moore
Welcome, Tanya. I am so excited to have you here. Why don't we first get started with just telling people a little bit about yourself? How did you get to be an art today? Always a very open-ended question. 

0:00:14 - Tania Ho
Yeah, so my name is Tanya and I'm actually originally from Hong Kong and now I live in Thailand, actually in the northern part of Thailand called Ching Rai. So I own and run a retreat center here called Muse Flower Retreat on Spa. So it's a yoga retreat center where we offer yoga meditation retreats, but also spa holidays as well, and also sometimes we also hold like a soulful retreat programs here. So this is where I am at the moment, in Ching Rai. Yeah, I've been a long journey to come here, to be here. I also teach meditation here, different styles of meditation. 

0:00:50 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, oh my gosh, it's like going to be my personal goal to come visit you in person. I don't know. Just plainly because that is like my dream. Everyone I have always wanted to go to Thailand and to do it in a retreat center sound. So, yeah, how did you get to doing this? 

0:01:05 - Tania Ho
To doing the retreat center? Yeah, meditation. So my background is actually in hotel management and specifically actually in spa, and I was already working in Thailand after I graduated. But when I was 25 my dad passed away and he was in Hong Kong. My dad had depression. So that was when I went back to Hong Kong and I was like I quit my job. It was like that time when I knew what I didn't want but I don't know what I want to do. 

So it was like that soul searching time, like traveling, and also I went to a retreat for the first time. 

I just here in Ching Rai for my own healing, you know, for my own healing, for my grief, and I thought retreat was just such a really powerful and it's like transforming the experience and it's always something that I'm like it's really aligned with what I'm interested in, like spa and wellness is just to help and just taking that one step further to like a full kind of immersive experience when you go to a retreat. 

So yeah, and just few years fast forward from that, I had opportunity to open a retreat center here in Thailand with a business partner at that time and then so we opened the place together and then, after we opened, like a year I think, or less than a year actually, we had different opinions around things, so we split the business actually and then it became my own every brand at the place. 

I'm a man, my husband here also, luckily for me, can. He was supporting me a lot in that process and you know, for me at that time really was just kind of like coming back to myself, also just thinking why do I want to start a retreat center? And to me was linking back to, you know, my dad. Like I grew up in Hong Kong, so we're in from the city, so just really wanted place for city people, but not just only city people, but like people really stressed out to be able to find a place to go back to nature, to reconnect back to themselves, and not just only on a physical level but also on emotional level as well. 

0:02:49 - Andrea Moore
Yes, I'm so curious. I'm like endlessly fascinated with what? And I don't know if you can answer this question, because I feel like I don't know how to answer for myself. But what is it that makes some people so willing to move into things like this? Right, because I feel like, at least here in the States, the culture is like, I mean, it's getting better, but it's like, don't talk about your emotions, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and keep going, you know. And so I'm so curious, especially at that age. 

Right, you're at a younger age and it sounds like you really were able to just so open up to the healing process and even your own soul searching journey with for when I'm here again, I'm sure it wasn't exactly. You know all. You know rainbows and butterflies, of course not, but it's like, right, there's I feel like there's people who have this openness and they can just step into it of like this is the next phase in my life and I'm going to open and receive support versus others who resist, and is like something's gone wrong. I shouldn't feel this way. How come I don't know what I want in my life and then we make ourselves wrong for it. So I'm so curious, like to hear more about your mindset at that time. 

0:03:55 - Tania Ho
Well, I feel like, maybe because I was already working in a spa already and the spa I was working on it's very focused on the holistic health aspects, those not just only physical relaxation so I was already meeting like practitioners and teachers who offered Reiki, crystal balancing, and I also myself went to learn Reiki as well when I was 21. So that already kind of opened up this whole new world of like healing and energies and so on. And I think for me, actually for my dad passing it was kind of more, maybe nine months later I started to have eczema and eczema was something that my everybody in my family my dad, my mom and my sisters they all had eczema. And I know like if you go for like the Western medicine route, it's just not so easy with healing eczema and even with traditional Chinese medicine it's also not so easy. So actually I got to, you know, I got was introduced to a homeopath and that's where actually I started my own healing journey on understanding the you can say there's the emotional factor to go with the eczema as well as actually to my dad's death, and I didn't realize at the time. 

So once I realized that, I think that was really kind of like spark that whole, like kind of healing deep down for myself and my eczema did go away. So, true me. So, yeah, it was stuff for me that I can say I thought had the background also something on the physical body just happened. You know metaphysics and they've kind of really forced yourself to look at. Okay, what is really the root cause here? 

0:05:24 - Andrea Moore
Yes, oh my gosh, that's so powerful. And I just want to, you know, reiterate what you said of like you had this physical symptom of eczema, which, by the way, I don't even think. I thought about this, so thank you for saying it. As a kid it was nothing terrible, I said like little patches, you know. But since I was like I don't have it anymore and it was never anything that really got in my way enough to even notice, but I was like, oh well, look at that. But yeah, it's so often these skin conditions and it's interesting that you're, you know, bringing up the skin, because I have a background in nutritional therapy and one of the things that just got me into this work too was, like man, so many of these symptoms that we're trying to repress with, especially Western medicine, like creams and ointments, and repress, repress, repress. It's so just repressing the energetic, emotional things that are to me. I look at it as like they're literally looking to come up and out, yeah, and then we have to have it back in. 

0:06:14 - Tania Ho
That's right. Yes, you're right, you're right. 

0:06:16 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, that's amazing that you were able to receive that support. Homeopathy is another thing that I'd like. Oh my gosh, I would love to deep dive. Maybe in 10 years I'll be a homeopathic. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah, one of those endlessly learning things. So I'm like, okay, settle down. That's so cool that you were able to find that and, yeah, I think it's just so interesting how some people are just pulled towards this work at such an early age. Like you said, you're interested at 21. I'm curious what pulled you even into that, if you know the answer. 

0:06:46 - Tania Ho
Right, yeah, well, actually it's interesting. I feel like in our life we met people who kind of like plant seeds along the way. That's kind of like sprung in something else. So I had a French teacher first when I was in high school, who's actually a tutor, and so my friend and he was the one who introduced our more therapy to me. So that was like when they got started and the whole natural health was like very interesting to me and then kind of linked to like when I was going to college and then going to a hotel management and found, oh my god, there's this whole world of spa that you know really combined my interest with health and business together and then from there, you know, just kind of going into. You know, of course it was more like a business management thing. It was actually my. 

I was in a spa management training program. I was working in a resort where there's a spa management training program after you graduated and there were a couple other management trainees and one of them she learned a Reiki or anyone. She was 22. So we're around the same age and she just really inspired me to do the same because it was something that felt like, oh yeah, something I could learn maybe in the future, and then seeing that, okay, she actually learned her in her age. While I was waiting, I had this opportunity where I was working. They already had the training, so I was like, okay, I'm just going to do it, and I'm so glad I did, because it really did change my life. It's one of those things that like completely shifted the life and then like, oh, wow, and then just open up this whole new world of things. The fun week. 

0:08:04 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, I'm so hearing that along your journey of just this openness, right, this are just receiving these invitations from life and like, oh, this sounds nice, I'm going to just follow this path and this sounds nice and this seat is planted and I love that. I love that openness. I think so often we get, oh, this is a journey we need to be on right, so we like close those doors that are trying to open for us and I feel like it sounds like you really beautifully walked through those doors that were right for you. Oh, thank you. 

0:08:29 - Tania Ho
Thank you. I didn't actually think of that way, but when you say it, yeah, thank you. 

0:08:33 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, absolutely I don't know. I'm just like endlessly fascinated by things like that and how things unfold and the way they're meant to right. And you said something earlier too, of you know, it's like soul searching journey and I know for so many of my listeners and this was myself of like we're a little type A and like this is how it should be and this is what we expect our lives to look like. That cuts off that openness, right, that's what closes the door, and we think that we should know what we're supposed to do already, or I should have already been at a certain stage, or oh, I'm this age, you know, why don't I already know what I want to do? Why haven't I already known my passion? And we cut off the ability to just experience different things and just walk the path and open to it, and so that's what I heard that you did really beautifully. 

0:09:24 - Tania Ho
Well, I definitely have that expectations and my inner control freak. You know it's kind of like I want to know, like all the 10 steps. You know the game plan. You know I want to know all 10 steps ahead. But life has taught me in different ways that is just not how I like work again and again, so slurring the lesson again and again, just like, okay, it's not going to turn out the way I expect it to be. Just have to like trust the timing, trust how things unfold, like you said. 

0:09:51 - Andrea Moore
Yes, yes, so, okay. So, since you have the inner control freak, like all of us think too Howdy and I'm sure that I want to bring in meditation here, because obviously that's something that you teach and really do a beautiful job of, so I'm curious how meditation fits in. Does that help the inner control freak to take a step back, or what's been your technique for managing that inner control freak that wants to know the 10 step? Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. 

0:10:17 - Tania Ho
So I feel like meditation. There's so many benefits of meditation, but just coming back to that like with the control freak part, I feel like meditation is definitely one practice can help us to just let you detach a little bit with what we're always doing, like this autopilot thing that we're in or this kind of daily habit that we're constantly doing and all these expectations that we put ourselves that we don't even aware of sometimes. And so I describe it's kind of like when you go to a movie theater where you're doing meditation and you're watching your thoughts, like you're watching a movie up on the screen and so you're the actor, the actor is that is on the screen, you're playing out this movie. You're also the creator, you're the script writer, so you're all that. But you're also the audience. So you're sitting in the audience, you're still, you're observing. 

So we all have that part of us that observe, a part of us. So to help us kind of teach us a little bit all that drama that we have in our life, that the drama, the inner control freak kind of like, really kind of last, is on. That's part of us definitely, but there's another part of us that is the observer, and so meditation kind of helps us to kind of like create that little distance. Hey, I can assert that instead of like being really critical or really judgmental, we can be a little bit more curious, like I said, be more open to like okay, interesting, why am I feeling this way or why am I getting triggered in this situation, and so it kind of comes that brings it that mindfulness as well. We are in our daily life because meditation maybe it's five minutes of a day, but what happens to the other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the day? Right? So that's where you know meditation is the practice and it brings us that mindfulness, hopefully, that we can incorporate in our daily life as well. 

0:11:57 - Andrea Moore
Yes, I love that. I love the curiosity piece. I have something that I call the wonder driven mind of just approaching ourselves and what's happening in our situations. With that just like wonderment of like wow, like, why is this occurring right now? Why all the drama about this? Like, let's get curious and just amazing how my brain can create so much drama over this situation, right, or whatever it might be, and some fun and playfulness. 

And yes, to the third party observer, it really is such a powerful like seat to be taking while you're meditating, and so I'm so curious. I know I myself had heard about all the benefits of meditation, had like taken all the courses on how beneficial it was, but when I first tried to try it for myself, despite me teaching you know my patients how to do it when I was working in the clinic, I was like I can't do it Right. My mind would not settle, I was get so distracted. So I'm so curious, like what's the best way to get started for somebody who is either new or has tried? And it just feels like it is clashing in their system. 

0:13:03 - Tania Ho
Yes, so that's actually very, very common issue that people face in meditation, like whether they get started or like they have tried and like fill their work. So one thing I just put it out there always help people is there are so many different styles of meditation, just like there are so many styles of cooking cuisine out there. Some people might like certain kind of food, some people like different types of food, right. So same as meditation styles, like there are so many different styles. If you have tried one style and it didn't work out for you, please do not give up on meditation, just like finding the best friend, right? You know, like just be open again and just being curious. It's like okay, well, let's not, they know where we work. Let me try the other stuff, because it's really also very much related to our own learning style. So you know, if some people who are more of visual learner, they might be attracted more to visualization type of meditation. Or some people who are more auditorial learner, maybe they want something with sound. So it really also kind of go with your learning style. Each person is very different. So I'll say like that's the number one, like just really try out, like different styles, because that happened to me too. 

When I started in meditation, I always thought it was like sitting down cross-legged with your back straight and counting your breath and it's like just totally didn't work for me, like I was like, oh, so difficult to concentrate and focus my breath so I gave up. So I think first of all is understand there's different styles and second and all, it's just this expectation again that meditation is supposed to have no thoughts. But that is not true. Actually, meditation is about learning how to observe your thoughts, so it's not about having no thoughts. 

You might eventually get to a space where you can really just be and just be in touch with that inner stillness that it's within and that's great. But that may or may not happen on a daily basis. So you're, some days it is okay, the mind is completely occupied with different thoughts and just know that. You know, the most important thing, I feel like, is just showing them the practice Same as I guess maybe I'm just going to throw out and maybe working out or maybe doing yoga. Some day you feel really great. Some day you feel like I can't not do it, but you still show up and that's the most important part. 

0:15:02 - Andrea Moore
Yes, I love that, the emphasis on the different styles, because, yes, I feel like some says like you must do it for 90 minutes. It's like, whoa, okay, hold up, it's a really big commitment, right? Or, yes, not counting the breaths everyone they probably knows that I cannot stand counting breaths, or I'm better at it now, but it used to be something that like triggered up my nervous system so it was so comfortable. But, yeah, I've always found the guided ones were the most accessible at first, and what's so interesting is it started with such an almost an inability, such a resistance to do it and then, when I opened up to the more guided ones, which just happened to be the ones that were for me in shorter, I feel like I would stick to nothing more than 10 minutes, yes, and then over time it's like now I kind of play with different styles and there are some days where I do have those moments of the stillness and other days, like today, my practice is sporting and my thoughts were like all over the place. 

But it is just allowing the differences on a day to day basis and knowing that that's totally fine, and it is interesting that you bring it into working out in yoga and it's like, yeah, obviously you're different every day, but I do feel like, at least for me, the differences I feel on a day to day basis with meditation, there's a much wider range of differences, right, right, right, and so it's just allowing that. That's normal, at least. Yeah, experience. 

0:16:18 - Tania Ho
Yeah, totally yes, and it is so wide it could be a right change. And, if you like, just so many things, like outer things are happening in our life or our bodies going through a different, or motorcycle or whatever. So all those I was like I can come in to play as well. You know where we are with our meditation today and all are acceptable, all are welcome. 

0:16:38 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, to me, the important part is just taking that moment to be with ourselves is really the way I see it too. I'm just taking that moment to be like I'm just with you, right here, now. Body and however you want to present yourself and however you need to be, without any specific outcomes or pressures, because our poor body has pressure on it all day long to be doing or performing or being a certain way. 

0:17:02 - Tania Ho
That's right yeah, and you're right. I feel like that acceptance is really also an act of self-love, because it's easy to say we love ourselves when we come to the actions. What is it? What does it mean and that is one thing you said about just being really acceptable of where we are today and just being there for ourselves that is definitely a gift that we get ourselves, an act of self-love. 

0:17:23 - Andrea Moore
Yes, yes, and so the other common, I guess, push back. I hear a lot, and I myself still sometimes struggle with, is the like oh my gosh, it feels like I have so much to do in my day. How am I going to do one more thing? Right, yeah, you're right, and I find so the people who say that the most need it the most, right. I know that for me, that's the days I need it the most, but, yeah, I'd love to hear how you approach that. 

0:17:46 - Tania Ho
Well, I'll say like there's like three parts answer. I guess the first meditation can be really simple. I feel like some people, like you said, like you know I have to have a big chunk of time. But actually, even if you're just sitting there for like one minute for yourself, that is totally fine and that's totally a great thing that you're doing for yourself already. So to me it's not so much about the quantity of time you spend, but more like just that quote and more like even not just the quality of like the intention that you have. Like I want to have just this one minute for myself. That's kind of like entering the sacred space and time for me myself. So that's the kind of one just kind of like make it really. I always tell people like set yourself up for success. So if it's like 10 minutes also is actually very long, can be very long already. So like that's a really great job if you're doing 10 minutes. So if you're starting out people I'd say like you know, just one minute, just start with one minute. If you can say you do one minute every single day, you're doing it every day anyway. So that's one part of second part is kind of making it fun because, like any habit, if it's not fun it's very hard to stick to it. We have to force ourselves or push ourselves to do something. It's really not going to last. So that's where it's like finding the meditation style that is fun, or at least something that we like, or something that really feels the benefit, like you said, maybe like guide and meditation, that you can really feel the benefit. So just stick with that, you know, go with the style that you really like. So that's important too. 

And then the third, of course it is. There is kind of like the commitment, because before I was always kind of just on and off meditator as well. So again, like a new defense of meditation, but like with males not practicing every single day. It was also not something that was in my higher priority on my list. And then it was all like from all the spiritual teachers with all this and you know, meditation it's like this practice you have to do the, it it's just going to be really beneficial. 

So I think I made a commitment. So, okay, I'm going to do it every day. I'm just going to see if, like how this goes, if it's really going to change my life, and it did. So it's kind of that commitment when I like stick to it and say, okay, I'm going to do it, and then when there are days when it didn't do it, then I would notice a difference. And then then I know, okay, you know, for me meditation is really like if I can do it, I can be a more sane person. So that's what I need, it for my sanity. So it's just like I need to do it for my sanity so I can stun. Should put the rest of the day. 

0:20:04 - Andrea Moore
Yes, oh my gosh, I think you bring up such a good point, cause I think so often it's like you're a busy mom or you know. 

You mean, you're like this position where you feel like you're constantly people please Again, like needing to take care of everyone else. Well, yes, of course we need to address those patterns. I think sometimes you can just use that as the thing to help commit. It's like if you have it stuck in your mind that you have to be the one who's showing up and doing all the work and helping everyone out, then at least like, twist that for your benefit to be like and meditation is going to be the thing that helps me do that and then maybe work on the yeah placing patterns too, but and really not stop with that short spot. But I feel like sometimes we can just find ways to kind of lovingly manipulate our brains to be like, yeah, and that's like because I have to take care of everyone and my family and be the one who does this all. That's exactly why I need to be meditating, cause, like you said, it saves your sanity. 

0:20:57 - Tania Ho
Yes, yes, it's not like really sexy or essential special, but it is like really, for me it was like one of the main. But let's like see, it's just really even for that moment, even just like that five minutes time as I'm saying, or calm maybe like, maybe not even calm, but just like being saying for like 10 minutes, and then the rest of the day, cause I'm also on mom, I'm a business owner, so there was like so many things that could happen and so, like you know, maybe the rest of the day it's totally like insane, but at least I did have that 10 minutes of sanity and then that just really kind of like saved the day a little bit. 

0:21:29 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, and I love that Cause. I do think you know, even talking about the benefits that I know, for me I don't know, if I meditate in the morning, that doesn't mean my days like it'll necessarily be like quote, unquote, better. For me, it's like I really notice the difference when I'm consistent and then I like become inconsistent. It was when I most noticed the difference. But it's like if I've been inconsistent and then I'm like, okay, I'm going to meditate, like that day's not necessarily going to like show the benefits of it, and so for me I would use that against myself for a while, because then I'd be like well then, what's the point in meditating? Right, you know what I mean? I was like my day didn't feel better, blah, blah, blah, right, and so I was like all right, I got to find a way to twist this right. But it's exactly what you said is like even just having those moments and I think of these moments to just recharge my battery and just have, even if it's just this recovery time, but that doesn't mean like I fully recovered, or it doesn't even mean anything about the rest of the day. It's just that I've given myself that time. Because if I don't and that happens repeatedly, day after day, then like shit hits the fan. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yes, and I also love that you said the just even sitting down for a minute. 

I've been doing this lately. 

I've been noticing my husband's been taking on a whole lot more things, which just means like more has been put added onto my plate, because he's like extremely helpful with things around the house. 

So now we're just kind of re-juggling with his new priorities, right, and so I've been like going a lot more. Normally I like finish my work day and I kind of have time to decompress, but now I was like finish my work, okay, got a big dinner, and so the last few nights this week I've noticed it's like really catching up with me and I'll like be in the middle of cooking and I'm just like okay, like I find myself like wait, just keep going it, or you got this, and then I'm like no, and I'll just like sit down on the middle of the floor for like two minutes and you go look and freeze and just like have that moment, and then I could get up and go. Okay, I'm good, and also we need to find a better schedule here, but it's been so helpful to just allow myself for those like one or two minutes to just sit while the water's boiling or while the meat's cooking and to just recover, yeah. 

0:23:31 - Tania Ho
I got what you mean. Because when we're like stressed, we're like and I feel like it's also the part of us that really want to be productive we're like doing this thing, I was like, okay, like the mind is trying to find like this multitasking thing, like what can I do? Like what can I do, what can I do. And so when you said and that's the mindfulness, I feel like that's the mindful of the talk you know we kind of talk a bit about at the beginning. One of the benefits of meditation is it's not just that five minutes, 10 minutes, but you know the mindfulness, the awareness that come into your life and you're like oh, let me just take that one minute just to take a breather, instead of using that one minute to panic over other things. And that is the difference, because that is the most practical thing you can take from meditation. One of the most you know is how we can integrate spirituality, or integrate as practice and hard to do, and that is a really good example that you gave. 

0:24:20 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, and I find after I do that, then I can even just bring the mindfulness into the cooking. Right, I can just like take that moment and be like, oh, it's like so cool how this like meat is changing colors when we put it on a heat source. You know what I mean? Like it's just like a little thing, yeah, just like okay, and then like the cooking becomes enjoyable and you get to enjoy the chopping, the veggies, right, but if I don't take that minute, then it's just like let's get done, and I mean like this, like panic, like not breathing state the whole time, and it does carry out throughout the evening then, and it affects my relationship with my husband and my kid and stuff, whereas, like huh, bring in the mindfulness. 

0:24:57 - Tania Ho
Yeah, that's right, like that breather, just like when you say even just one minute, just to kind of like reset a little bit. 

0:25:03 - Andrea Moore
Yes, yes, and I love also what you're talking about of bringing it into daily life. It is so interesting I've worked with a couple of clients who were avid meditators, like would meditate for like an hour plus a day, but they were almost using it as a form of escapism from life Because it was like the only time where they could feel at peace and content. So I was like, oh, I want more of this right. So they had no problem integrating in the meditation. What became the issue and I see this with like multiple types of healing, with whatever healing modality people are doing, when it's even going to a massage therapist or doing somatic work, like the very work I teach is like, oh, here's the one place where things actually feel in my control and content, and then there's not the carryover. So I'm curious, one, if you see that, and two, if you have recommendations for helping people carry it over into their lives if they're not stealing, like it is, in the way that they want. 

0:26:01 - Tania Ho
I have noticed it in certain people, and not just the meditation, like I said. 

You know like we all have our white spots. 

You know like, just because we're human beings, we're not perfect in that way, and then you know, that's where I feel like the reflection and then just that self-awareness and just the inquiry Like you said, being really curious comes to play because you know, with all any kind of healing, you know it's great when we go through the healing you said, but when we start to rely on that to feel a certain thing or to get certain things, instead of relying on ourselves, that something that is internal, well, hopefully, hopefully that's kind of more like a mindset thing A lot of people are asleep. They don't notice that, and sometimes it's not in my place to say it because the person didn't ask for it, they didn't ask for advice, and so that's fine. I think we just observe, and for me I don't really tell people, because if they don't ask for it I just don't realize my place to say it. But I take that as a reflection for myself. So you know it's to myself. If I notice that, then maybe it's something that's a reflection for myself to work on. 

0:27:03 - Andrea Moore
Oh, yes, I love that view of just like seeing things as a reflection for yourself, because, absolutely, we're all mirrors of each other, right? 

0:27:13 - Tania Ho
Yes, yes, and I also really, truly believe that the outer world is just a reflection of what's going on inside. So if something that comes up that we feel you know we observe something, we notice something that's probably something that it's pointing back towards us as well. 

0:27:28 - Andrea Moore
Yes, yes, I found this to be so true and I think something that I struggled with when I first kind of came across that mindset was not using it to beat myself up. You know what I mean? Right, to be able to take it as this thing of like oh, this is a really valuable reflection for me, right? I think a lot of people struggle, who struggle with perfectionism, with being able to take this reflection and not use it as a criticism, but more use it as this like really beautiful reflection that can help them grow. To see that there is growth means that you have to accept that you're not perfect, and I think that's the hang up for a lot of people is like oh, even growth means I have to admit that I'm not at my end stage of perfection, which, like, of course you're not, because who is? 

0:28:19 - Tania Ho
Right. Well, I feel like I don't know if you see that in your clients, but a lot of people, like I said myself you know I had a perfectionist kind of attitude you know before as well and I just feel like it's more like the underlying. There is just this belief that we're not good enough and that's why they're just striving for being perfect. And so this conflict, like trying to fix ourselves through any kind of different kind of modalities, you know, this kind of beating ourselves up, like you said, and taking things personally, which I do, I do a lot still and that's starting to learn. And that's where the meditation also start to come in again. It's just because meditation reminds us of we're, not our thoughts. So when we're like dwelling to that thought and we're like going down the rabbit hole and start to take things really personally, it kind of helps us to step back again. Okay, all right, I don't have to take all these things personally. 

And a lot of times actually, I feel like you know when things happen, when we feel we got triggered, I feel like we're not good enough. It really is not like the other person. That's the choice. They didn't do it purposely to hurt you or to do it purposely to say you're not good enough. Everybody has their own back, it's just. I feel like it's just everybody you know their own stuff and then that's got blown out and then everybody got triggered around that thing, you know. So I definitely feel like, again, it's just. I always tell people to just bring that back to ourselves again, you know like, instead of focusing too much on what other people say or do because we cannot control other people, say, we cannot change what other people do let's bring the focus back to ourselves, what we can do, how we can respond, instead of being reactive. And again, that's all the mindfulness that can come, the awareness that come in. 

0:29:49 - Andrea Moore
Yes, I love that and, yes, I so struggle with that as well too. Still, because I think it's an ongoing thing of perfectionism and not feeling good enough and feeling like we need to be at this certain place and so just to remind ourselves that we're all humans and nothing's gone wrong. The thing I always think about in my head because I don't think I've ever shared this before when I'm like caught in this, like, oh, I should have known better. Or like, oh, my gosh, like I can't believe I still have to improve that area, as I think of like a baby who's still crawling, is ready to learn how to walk, it's like you wouldn't beat that baby, you wouldn't be like, how dare you not know how to walk? Yet, of course, stop it, you should stay back to where you were because you shouldn't have known better, so you should just not even try, you know. 

And this is like, oh, that's so silly, right. And it's like, oh, I just learned something new that I could improve on. Why would I hold myself back now? Because that would mean I was like wrong before, right, so I don't know. That's the only image that comes to my head and that always helps me be like okay, it's okay. I could just admit that I didn't know yet, or that I did know and I still didn't take action on it, because that's not so happens. 

0:30:54 - Tania Ho
But that's also a really good example of just the way how we really should treat ourselves, because that's the inner critic, right, the inner critic, the part of us, that's the inner critic want to beat ourselves up. But then I was like you know how about we treat ourselves as that baby? You know, like, just think of yourself as a baby and just give yourself lots of tender, loving, care, and you wouldn't say those harsh things to the baby. So why would you say it to yourself? Because I truly also do believe there's no one in the world, like statistically, can love you more than you can love yourself. So you know, we really owe it to ourselves to be the most kind to ourselves, because no one else is obligated to do that. So that's my own kind of like take on. I don't mean in a negative way, but that's really just. I see, even parents, even children, we can't rely on that. But I feel like the most important person to give ourselves love is ourselves. 

0:31:43 - Andrea Moore
Yeah, I think I think you're spot on and I think it can feel kind of like a harsh reality. Sometimes it's like that same thing of like no one else is going to come and like save you, like we get to be that for ourselves, and I think at first it can feel like huh, and then it's like, oh wow, that's actually really empowering and really amazing. I was like I get to love me right now. I get to come save me right now. I say that with quotes versus feeling like you're stuck waiting for somebody to show up in this one, like perfect way, and swoop in. Then you could be stuck waiting your whole life. Yeah, no, beautiful, beautifully sad. And so I'm so curious there's any one piece of advice you'd want to leave for people who are like, okay, maybe I'm going to retry meditation or willing to give it another shot. Like what would be the thing to leave people listeners with? 

0:32:32 - Tania Ho
Well, since we're talking about baby and you talk about just baby crawling, I'll say, like really start with baby step. So, instead of again like it's this expectation I have to get to, like, oh, I can really feel like that inner stillness Maybe we're not there yet and that's totally fine Like just start that one baby step. Maybe that baby step is just taking one minute, maybe like one minute out of this whole one week. We're going to try it. Maybe that baby step is just downloading the app, not even going to open the meditation app, I'm just going to download it first. 

So, like, just really break it down into a super minor, small, small task. Maybe it's just setting up my space. I'm not even going to set it, but I'm going to set up like a cushion that's going to be maybe my meditation space, or maybe it's just my bed, but I have a special cushion that's going to be my meditation cushion. So just take really small step and then it's going to help to set yourself up for success. And I think that's one thing that's most important is to do small things so you're not overwhelming yourself, and just small and achievable task, just like any other habit. But yeah, meditation is the same. Just break it down into what's the next manageable step for you and just do that part. 

0:33:41 - Andrea Moore
I love that. I love that approach so much I. Do we so underestimate what we can accomplish? We're just actually taking baby steps, versus constantly stuck in the like, waiting for the perfect time to start this big thing, which then will never happen or, if it does, falls off very quickly when anything goes wrong. So yes, and since you've mentioned apps, I'm curious do you have a favorite app, just so people can have like a very easy next baby step to go to? 

0:34:09 - Tania Ho
I do love HEPSPACE no affiliation. I've tried HEPSPACE. I know there are many other HEPSPACE but I try HEPSPACE and they have. I know that when I tried it a few years back. You have like this 10 day free program and then you can choose like three minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes. So I did just do the three minute one and I think it was just really nice to able to fall like. A 10 day program is on the phone is only three minutes, so it's totally very manageable. So, yeah, but there are definitely a lot of other apps out there right now. Yeah, good, too. 

0:34:38 - Andrea Moore
I know I always recommend, like if you want the like here, you go here's. They have a free trial. They have the like. Here's the program to do. 

It's like HEPSPACE or calm, and I was tell people like, see whose voice you like better in your ear, right, yeah. And then insight timer is the one that I use now. I really like that one because it has a timer you can set. But then there's the only thing with insight timer. I caution people is like you have to choose which one, and I could like some days I will sit down and I'll be like 20 minutes later and I still have it. I'm like, no, this one's that perfect, no. And I'm like Tim, that was my meditation time, so I've gotten better about that. But so that's the only thing with insight timer. 

They have like so many wonderful ones, but it can be a little overwhelming, but they do have the timer function. So if you can just get yourself to go right into that, if you don't want the guidedness but they do have a lot of really beautiful guided ones just don't get caught scrolling for the perfect meditation, just yeah, those are my other ones. I've tried. I'm sure there's so many others out there as well. But, yeah, no affiliation for any of them either. So, yeah, well, thank you, tania, so much for being here. This was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for having me here. Thank you, yeah, and where do people find you? 

0:35:49 - Tania Ho
So they can find us on the Muse Flower website. We also have a newsletter people can sign up for and they'll get a 500-bot credit voucher when it's time for a newsletter to use for their next retreat booking here. And they'll also get weekly tips on, like meditation, how to get started in meditation or with other spiritual practice tools. So it's just wwwmuseslorcom. So Muse Flower Retreatcom. 

0:36:17 - Andrea Moore
Awesome. Actually, I have one more question for you. How long are your retreats normally Like, are they? How long the retreats, yeah? 

0:36:24 - Tania Ho
right. So we have actually two retreat packages we usually offer. It's all available all year around. So we have a yoga retreat package and also a spa, get a repackage, and the minimum is usually three nights. So for the three nights, three nights, five nights or seven nights oh, oh my gosh. And it's available all year round, so you can start any day you want. 

0:36:42 - Andrea Moore
Well, there you go, if anybody is looking for an amazing trip go check out Tania and Muse Flower. That sounds absolutely dreamy. Thank you so much for everything you do and thank you for being here. Thank you so much, andrea. Thank you for having me here today. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page